Random Fact: It was known long before Columbus that the earth was round. Mariners didn't try to go around because it would take far too long to get to Asia. If America hadn't been there, Columbus' voyage probably would have starved.

Ya, Eratosthenes actually came up a with a pretty close approximation of the size of the earth by praying to Apollo. I think that's how it went. Didn't he set up some kind of shrine to the sun?

I was using it more as a comparison of how they would view us from that point in time, and less of comparing the Big Bang to the Flat Earth theory.

I still think there's a crucial difference. The people who supposed the earth was flat lived in a pre-scientific era. Ever since the advent of the scientific method, I feel that there has been more or less a steady march towards better and better understanding. I don't think the scientists of the future will somehow scoff at the scientists of today, for the achievements of those in the future will depend completely on what scientists are doing today.

Well put. But you did get my point right? :P

Yes. : )

All three, it seems that most pick one or another stating the other unreasonable for this reason or that, but in conjunction, with our current understanding they all make sense. Evolution works, but what started that spark of life, and set in motion the big bang? Creationism and Intelligent Design could almost be rolled into one, or are two totally different things depending on how you look at it. Either way, the three together can fill in each other's holes. Maybe the universe is like a grand strategy, and there is a god, who set everything up to work out, and then decided to go take a nap. At this point it's impossible to really say one is right or wrong.

The big crunch or whatever you wish to call it doesn't signal the end of the universe, rather it would be supercompacted into an incredibly small space, as it supposedly was at the beginning of the big bang. Thus, the universe can never be removed. Why? Because matter cannot be destroyed. Not necessarily matter as we know it, but the substance of the universe.
God as the creator of everything still supports evolution as above, although for what we know it is possible we are an amnesiac lost race who did create the universe. Just highly unlikely.

Considering that all information in the universe would be lost in a big crunch, I think it's reasonable to call it the end of the universe. Also, we have no idea what would happen to the matter and energy at such a singularity. The laws of physics as we know them break down under such conditions.

My main problem with intellgent design is that it focuses on life-as-it-is, and not life-as-it-might-be.

What do you mean exactly?

As science currently seems to show, either a singularity can or cannot exist. Either there is a singularity now, or there never will be by the same fact that true 0 degrees either does exist or can never exist. Perhaps when the big crunch is about to completely remove all information from the universe and condense it to a point, it inverts with pressure, thus a possible source of the Big Bang.

As for intelligent design, I think it could be construed to cover things as they will be as well. How do we know we aren't currently being shaped towards a master race, or eternal bliss or whatnot.

I believe that through intelligent design that evolution happened and thus creationism is also a valid idea, basically if something was intelligent to create the universe who is to say they were not also intelligent enough to create in such a way that all things came about the way they did

My one question to everyone on this thread: Does it really matter?

Yes.

Due to both practical concerns (how to carry out science, what to teach in schools) and existential concerns (what is our purpose in the universe? who are we?), it is of great importance.

You could ask the same question of anything and the answer would inevitably be 'No'
Nothing matters, but we do shit anyway. If you're old enough to be talking, you should be used to this by now.

It's not inevitably 'no'. I believe that things do matter.

But it could be reasoned to a "no".

Does it really matter?

Your question implies something you seem to have ignored, sir.
Does it matter and to whom?

To whom is an important element when considering any sort of valuation.

Indeed, randite.


Reason has no power to determine meaning in any sort of absolute sense. It's pretentious to say otherwise.

I was referring to thenagain's statement that the answer is an inevitable no, you could debate it (reason, not use of logic necessarily) to be "no".
At any rate, we're off topic here.

That's true, thank you.

You're welcome
Back to the topic, has anyone heard some of the beliefs where humans are simply a amnesiac race that created Earth, the moon, etc?

No. That's interesting. What made us forget? Or did it just sort of fall into legend?

Whether or not something matters depends on whether or not it will impact people. For instance, a clap of thunder on the other side of the world does not matter to me, but the house the lightning struck has some owners to whom it mattered an awful lot. If it turns out we all we made through some sort of intelligent design, it would not matter to me as I would continue on in the same vein I am now, but it may make a difference to the way someone else chooses to live. Value is subjective.